>> yeah. >> and it's very positive driven, very like get up and be glass half-full, not glass half-empty. people say, it's easier for you, mate. you're selling tens of millions of books, making hundreds of millions of dollars, married to this beautiful woman, life's pretty damn good for joel osteen. what about if i've lost my job, my house, my car, i can't feed my kids, as tens of millions of americans right now are going through that? what do you say about that? how do you convince them to take your lead? >> i think that's hope -- the big part of the ministry is that you know, we face difficulties, too, but our hearts go out to people, americans are hurting, people all over the world. it's so important, if you get up in the morning and think life's lousy, there's nothing good in my future, i don't want to go to work, i don't feel well, you're going to draw in more negativity, you're going to get bitter on life and sink down into depression and miss your purpose. it's not easy when things are coming against you. you've got to get up and find something to be grateful for.

>> that's it for us tonight. it's been an extraordinary year. thank you for watching. hello, everyone. i'm deborah feyerick in for don lemon. the stories you're talking about in just a moment. but first, let's get you up to speed on some of the day's headlines. aurora, colorado, the scene of a deadly movie theater massacre last summer is dealing with a new tragedy tonight. a barricaded gunman and three other people are dead after an early morning stand-off. police say the gunman opened fire on officers after hours of negotiation. >> a s.w.a.t. team was called out. they set up. hostage negotiators tried to get the suspect to come outside. we made multiple attempts. had intermittent phone calls with the suspect throughout the morning. >> officers shot and killed the gunman and found two men and a woman dead inside the home. a woman had escaped earlier and told police she had seen three lifeless bodies inside. aurora is the same denver suburb where a gunman opened fire last

summer in a theater killing 12 people. is lance armstrong about to come clean? a published report says the cycling great is thinking about admitting that he used performance-enhancing drugs. "the new york times" reports armstrong is considering it, hopeful he may return to competition. italian fashion mogul and his wife are missing. a small plane they were in disappeared off the coast of venezuela yesterday. he is the marketing management for his brand. he has target stores here in the united states. [ speaking foreign language ]. >> venezuelans rallied for their ailing president. hugo chavez has had four cancer operations and is currently being treated in cuba. venezuela's vice president says the next health update on chavez will come in a few days. he's supposed to be inaugurated, hugo chavez, for a fourth term next week. we have a lot more planned for this saturday night. here's what else we are working on.

accusations of rape rattle a small ohio town. >> all of us need to pay attention to this. >> shocking an entire nation. an attorney for one of the accused, the woman who felt a crime was being covered up and our own dr. drew pinsky are part of our extended coverage this hour. when was the last time you heard a politician talk like this -- >> 66 days and counting, shame on you, shame on congress. >> new jersey's chris christie winning over voters from both parties. is it hard talk or hot air? and don lemon with william shatner. ♪ going out of my head >> i can't get that song out of my head. >> you've never seen captain kirk like this before. ♪ >> all that and more coming up. don's interview comes later this hour, but first, it is a

case that is dividing a small town and attracting national media attention. startling allegations of teenagers raping an underage girl. the accused are two 16-year-old high school football players who allegedly sexually assaulted the girl while partying one night this summer. amid allegations of cover-up, pressured leaders in steubenville, ohio, are speaking out. protesters rallied today to support the alleged victim and to protest the town's handling of the case. meantime, the newly launched steubenvillefacts.org was created by city leaders to disseminate the most accurate information about the charges pending against two juveniles in steubenville. but the now very public rape case wasn't always so public. activist hacker group anonymous is responsible for posting a video of teenagers in the town cracking jokes about the alleged incident.

>> what if that was your daughter? >> but it isn't. >> if that was my daughter, i wouldn't care, i would just let her be dead. >> listen to your yourself. >> i'm listening to myself fine. >> in about ten years, i'm going to come back to this video. >> ten years, my daughter's going to be getting raped and dead. >> anonymous later released a photograph apparently showing the alleged victim unconscious and being carried by her arms and legs. cnn cannot confirm the girl in the photo is the alleged victim. but it's the release of this photo that created a wave of social media attention and an increase in media coverage. >> it's kind of unforwarded and then it grew beyond all proportions we ever thought, with the pictures and the graphic descriptions of the boy that was on the video the other day talking about this from that particular night. this young lady didn't know what happened. that's what i believe that the case is about.

>> the case gained national attention after "the new york times" published a lengthy piece on it in december. the controversy has shaken the town. some residents etcven accusing outsiders of trying to ruin the reputation of the high school football team. an attorney for one of the accused says the photos and videos have been taken out of context. the attorney for the other teen charged says there's a girl says, quote, i know you didn't rape me, unquote. let me bring in walter madison, attorney for one of the accused boys. mr. madison, let's look at this picture that shows your client holding the alleged victim's legs. it is a disturbing photo to watch. how does your client explain it? sir, can you hear us? can you hear us?

sir, can you hear us? it's deborah feyerick at cnn. can you hear us now? >> can you hear them at all? >> i hear you now. >> mr. madison, can you hear us? mr. madison? >> no audio. >> mr. madison? >> can you hear them? >> no. >> we're having a little bit of audio difficulty right there. we are going to come straight back to him. but right now, let's move on. a defense attorney for the other accused teen spoke to our own susan candiotti and he claims that a text message may be a crucial piece of evidence in the upcoming trial. >> i would like to bring up an interesting fact that we do plan on presenting at trial, is that my client received a text message the following day from the alleged victim. the alleged victim herself stating that she said, i know you didn't rape me. >> what? >> she texted my client the next day stating, quote, i know you

didn't rape me. >> do you have that text? >> we do. and that is something that is going to be introduced at trial. >> and what -- did he reply? >> that's something that's going to be introduced at trial, yes. >> why do you think she sent that? >> because i don't think she thinks she was raped. >> now, he would not allege or show us that text. we want to go -- we've re-established contact with mr. madison. sir, you represent one of the accused boys, malik richmond. how does your client explain the photo taken in which he is shown holding the alleged victim by her hands or feet? >> well, a photograph is just a moment in time. it's that millimeter or millisecond, however the shutter speed is set on the particular camera. and although pictures can be

misleading and in this case out of context, it does not suggest the activity prior to the photo being taken and/or after the photo that was taken. and obviously it's a still so there's no audio. there will be evidence and discussion around the circumstances before and after the photograph. the context of the whole entire evening in particular at that time with the photo, it's really unfair that it's made its way around the internet in the fashion that it has. and this is one of the major problems we're encountering at this point with social media. >> let me interrupt for just a moment. it's not a question that the photo is making its way around the internet. the problem is that the photo exists at all. if it weren't for the evidence, the tweets, the postings and the various social media, this case wouldn't be getting the attention that it's gotten so far. does your client admit to having sex with the alleged victim?

>> in this case, those particular facts, we have to allow the court to examine and so that they can be fully vetted. one of the things that really troubles all parties here is that we're all looking for justice. that's what this system is designed to do. and the fact that the ultimate question of whether or not there was sex, in this state, there's multiple ways other than a traditional concept of sex that one may be accused of rape. so there could be digital penetration, there could be oral penetration or that with an object. and i'm not specifying what is the allegation or which method is the allegation for the state at this point. what i'm saying is that there are more than one way that a person may assume constitutes rape. >> correct, sir. i understand that. but the prosecutors are charging your client with sexual assault

of this young lady who they say was either too drunk to know or had by that point passed out and didn't know what was going on. so sort of technicalities aside, the question is, has your client admitted to being there and admitted to being with this young woman on that night? >> well, subsequent to the photograph, there's evidence that she was conscious and that she was capable of making decisions and speaking and exhibiting decision-making activity. so, again, the question -- the photo is out of context. and those are the things that we must wait to see. thus far, all we've done in this case is had a hearing on the issue of probable cause. in the state of ohio, the burden for that is very, very low. and at that hearing, the defense, we do not have the option of presenting evidence. we don't have the luxury of bringing witnesses in on our behalf. so all of evidence that the world has heard to this point was at the production of the

state of witnesses that they selected and they selected the best witnesses they could find to establish at that time a charge of kidnap and/or rape. >> are you suggesting that your client, sir, is being scapegoated for a crime that other people may have been involved in? >> well, i can't make that decision. i'm not a prosecuting authority. that decision is made by other entities. my business is my client, malik richmond. >> how is your client doing? >> well, all of these people involved here are juveniles. and we have a juvenile system that is designed to make allowances for people who are not mature enough to make decisions that potentially could affect the rest of their lives. at one point, we wanted to prosecute these young boys as adults. there was a hearing and there was an independent evaluation from a psychologist. and it was determined that they are just inappropriate candidates for adult

prosecution. >> okay. and let's not forget, clearly, innocent until proven guilty. will this case remain in juvenile court and if so, will the evidence and this case be sealed? >> well, you mentioned a few things there. the matter is a juvenile matter. there was a determination about that. and it will remain there. and the presumption of innocence, we would like to enjoy that. however, that has been destroyed. it's essentially at this point a legal lynching. you have not just the allegation that we must defend against at this point based upon protests and other activities that have gone on and other special interest groups who have joined into the conversation. we now have a campaign waged against us by women groups who are anti-violence against women. and let us be clear. we are not promoting crime. we are not promoting rape. all we're asking for is a fair

opportunity to explore these issues which the media through the social media has put out into the world and propagandized this case. and to this point, we have been silent about these. if i could just finish this point, to this point, the defense, we've been silent honoring the sacred nature of the legal process. only until the scales became so unbalanced did you hear about the text message and the communication sent to the co-defendant here. >> i think the question and i think the thing that people find most disturbing, however, is how many people seem to have been involved, how many people seem to have witnessed what was going on that night and how few people stepped in to help a young woman who may or may not have been passed out while all of this was going on. mr. madison, walter madison, the lawyer for one of the accused boys, we thank you very much for your time and for your insights as well. >> i think i understood your question. and you may need to repeat if my

answer doesn't speak to it. the video is grossly inappropriate for the media to have -- the social media to use in the fashion that it has. >> we understand that, sir. the one thing we want to make the point is it exists and that's part of the problem that people are having about what happened that evening. thank you so much, walter madison. we appreciate it. next, we're going to speak with a woman who's credited with bringing this case to national attention. we can't say where she is. we'll tell you why next. i got mine in iraq, 2003. usaa auto insurance is often handed down from generation to generation. because it offers a superior level of protection, and because usaa's commitment to serve the military, veterans and their families is without equal. begin your legacy, get an auto insurance quote. usaa. we know what it means to serve.

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two 16-year-old high school football players have been charged with sexually assaulting a 16-year-old girl last summer. and much of the event being documented and made public via facebook, instagram and twitter by some of the high school students who apparently were there. i want to bring in alexandria godard, crime blogger. you shed light on this story. put it into perspective for us. you're from steubenville. >> yes, i used to live there several years ago. >> and so you decided -- you basically decided to come out and write about this because you felt that with everything that was known that it wasn't being investigated properly. walk us through that. >> not necessarily that it wasn't being investigated properly because i don't have knowledge of that. i'm not law enforcement. but there were things online that the local media was not presenting or hadn't found. >> you suggest there were other football players who were there, that there were others who were

there and did nothing to stop this. should there be more charges brought against more of the high school players based on some of the information that you were able to see that's now been deleted, posts, for example? >> you know, again, i'm not an attorney or a prosecutor. but if there were laws broken, then, yes, people should be held accountable. >> now, you were sued by a student, apparently, allegedly who basically documented what happened. tell us about that and tell us how it ended. >> i was sued. 25 of my john doe commenters were sued. and in my opinion, the lawsuit was brought simply to stifle free speech. and the lawsuit was dismissed with prejudice on december 27th. >> okay. and what's also interesting is apparently the student later apologized to the victim and her family for his online comment.

>> yes. >> now, basically, alexandria, we just want to tell our viewers tonight that, in fact, we haven't told people where you are. your lawyer who represents you is in las vegas. you've received some very specific threats. mark, tell us about why your client has drawn so much fire from people in steubenville. >> because she was doing exactly what she should have done as a journalist. she was exposing wrongdoing. and doing it at a time when the mainstream media was ignoring it. so she was the first amendment in action. this is what it's there for. it is to bring sunlight upon something that needs to be exposed. so people didn't want that to happen. steubenville itself is very upset about this case. of course, the participants in it are very upset about it. and by participants, i don't just mean the rapists. if you watch that video, you will see that there were people

standing around. there were people who witnessed it. people who documented it did nothing. and there might be a line over which one side of this line is something that is illegal and you can be prosecuted for. but then there's still this gray area of just horrible sociopathic behavior. and she shined a light on that because it seems from her reporting that there's a culture of that in steubenville, that that is tolerated there. so i'm extremely proud of what she's done. but she's definitely made a lot of people angry. >> and alexandria, the officials of steubenville say, this is not what we are, this is not what our town is about. do you think the football team there is protected on some levels, that they're given a free pass to behave as they want? >> from living there, their football is very important to them and they are held on a pedestal. so in my opinion, yes. >> and one more question.

you posted screen shots of photos that have now been deleted, of videos from that night. what was most horrifying to you that you saw and said, this has got to come to light? >> just the total disregard for this young lady. the lack of empathy, the lack of compassion for another human being. and when i saw all the horrible things written, that's when i made the decision that it was time to shine a light on it. >> they were essentially blaming the victim, is what you're saying? >> yes. >> alexandria goddard, thank you so much. i want to bring in paul callan. he's our legal contributor. paul, what's so interesting is that the hacker group, anim anonymous, posted the video initially online for people to see. they have said they can hack into accounts and maybe more will come out. does this help or does this hurt

the case? >> i think it's, of course, brought the case to public attention in a very, very graphic way. what a lot of people don't realize is this is a juvenile case. and juvenile cases are not publicized like cases that take place in adult court. so we're only getting bits and pieces of information about it. the anonymous posting drew a lot of public attention. of course, they did state that they did illegal things like hacking into people's computers and stealing their passwords and then threatening to publish pictures and other documents that they obtained by illegal hacking. i don't think we can encourage that kind of behavior. but on the other hand, it has cast a light on what was going on in steubenville. >> and what's interesting also is that you heard the lawyer earlier basically say, well, this is all about social media. but what's fascinating to me is that there was an active conversation going on, apparently, between some of the students who had been at these

parties. and that's why it came to light. they themselves, whether they realized it or not, were dominanting what was going on. is that admissible evidence in court? >> certainly. they'll all be key witnesses in the case. the attorney madison, i thought it was interesting when you were asking him questions about the picture. and he says, it's taken out of context. well, i don't know how it could be taken out of context unless his -- unless the young woman is a very heavy sleeper and she's being moved from place to place because she certainly looks intoxicated. if one is intoxicated and then is subject to sexual conduct, under ohio law, that's rape. you were asking the question and we focused on the other attorney saying that a text message had been sent from the victim saying that she hadn't been raped. and i think what you're going to hear prosecutors say is, a lot of people don't realize that the definition of rape is not sexual intercourse by forcible

compulsion, which is how we normally think of it. it can be various kinds of sexual contact. and the girl may not have thought that she was raped. she may be applying on old-fashion definition to it in her text as opposed to a lawyer's definition. we have to see how the facts turn out in the case before we can say that that text will help the defense or not. >> what the meaning is or what the meaning is not, for that matter. >> exactly. >> alexandria, you have shed a lot of light on this. do you have any regrets, either personal or professional? >> no, not at all. i'm overwhelmed at the response. and i'm glad other people are asking questions. that was my intention. >> all right. alexandria goddard, marc randazza and our own paul callan, we really appreciate your helping us shed light on this conversation. thank you. how does something like this happen? what goes through the minds of young men who do or who are

accused of doing several things? a forensic psychologist and our own dr. drew pinsky. stay with us. and i'm thinking, "shouldn't you have more energy than me? you're, like, eight!" [ male announcer ] for every 2 pounds you lose through diet and exercise alli can help you lose one more by blocking some of the fat you eat. simple. effective. advantage: mom. let's fight fat with alli. learn more, lose more at letsfightfat.com. learn more, lose more trying to find a better job can likbe frustrating.gs, so at university of phoenix we're working with a growing list of almost two thousand corporate partners - companies like microsoft, american red cross and adobe - to create options for you. not only that, we're using what we learn from these partners to shape our curriculum, so that when you find the job you want you'll be a perfect fit. let's get to work.

a social media avalanche descended on a 16-year-old girl at the center of an alleged rape case. for months, the teen's chilling story plus photos have been discussed, dissected on social media worldwide, photos showing her in an incredible vulnerable state tweeted around the globe. her family's attorney says the teen is getting counseling and doing as well as one can expect. let's bring in dr. cheryl arid. if you could talk to this girl, how would you help her cope with

what she's dealing with? >> deborah, i think the most important thing i would want to say to her loud and clear is that rape is never, ever the victim's fault. what happened to her was not her fault. and that's a really important thing, especially when you are growing up in an environment that has such tolerance, such a high tolerance of rape myths and for blaming the victim. we have to remember how very important football is in this community. and football is about taking without permission, overwhelming resistance, and taking without consent. and i think it's very easy in that kind of environment on the field to have that spill over and create a high level of tolerance in the community. so what i would say to her is first of all, she can heal from this. it is not her fault. and she needs to be around

people who can really work with her to help her overcome what she's experienced and rebuild her life. >> what is so fascinating to me is the fact that people took pictures, that they discussed it, that they were tweeting about it, that they were having conversations via instagram and facebook. there was a sense that this was all a big joke, that they were allowed to do this. they were okay to do this. is that part of the culture or is it very possible they were so drunk, they didn't know what they were doing? >> it would be tempting to think of it as being too intoxicated to realize what they were doing. but i think they realized very clearly what they were doing. this is consistent with a way of thinking. we think about rape very differently than we think about other kinds of crimes. if you look at mugging, for example, we don't ask whether it was the victim's fault because he might have been wearing a watch that some other guy felt tempted by or what was he doing walking at that hour or had he ever given money away voluntarily in the past?

and yet when we're looking at rape, we ask, was she ever sexually active? how do we know that she didn't consent to this? we have all these special rules that really serve to demean and further victimize the victim and not looking at this as a human rights issue, which i think it really is. >> and we have an expert also -- another expert with us tonight, dr. drew pinsky. i'm going to ask you about the character of these boys and what it tells us about what happened. but we're going to do that after the break. both of you stay with us. ♪

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also the young men accused of this crime. we p want to reiterate that they are innocent until proven guilty. let me bring in dr. cheryl arutt and dr. drew pinsky. dr. drew, let me ask you this. what's disturbing is the fact -- >> everything. >> -- that there was enough wherewithal for these young men to tape what was going on, to record, to document, to take photos. what was their mentality? what was going on in their minds or was nothing going on? >> well, deborah, here's the deal. i think we all -- all of your viewers need to step back and take this away from a small town in ohio and think about what is happening to our youth more globally. this is about kids, morality, the capacity for empathy. that girl, the most disturbing part of this was that 12-minute videotape that was aired where the kids are laughing about the young lady being dead. there it is alongside of me right now. she was no more a person dead

than she was alive. this is the abjeobject fication women. they act out on one another as though they are simply objects. we must counter-parent this actively. if we don't, it could be our kids. the other element with this is alcohol. whether it is sexual conduct that's unwanted, you find alcohol. if parents, if adults were involved in the use of alcohol with these kids, they should be held accountable. th there's rumor that there were. but that's strictly rumor at this point. >> there was a rumor that this girl had so much to drink that she passed out at one point -- >> i'm going to stop you. the fact that she passed out does not make her a candidate for rape. incalifornia, if you have a very small amount of alcohol,

you are not considered able to render consent. i find it stunning that in ohio, maybe they need to revisit their laws, that being conscious, according to the attorney you were peeking with, conscious, making decisions and speaking, make somebody sufficiently sober to be able to render consent. and that is a problem. that's something that ohio needs to look at and every state should look at that. >> what about accountability? let's talk about that. this goes to the point you were raising. there's no empathy. there's no sort of ability to gauge right from wrong. accountability, they're posting pictures, they're talking about this. they are implicating themselves. they are essentially making themselves character witnesses to what went on. >> again, these are kids. and as kids -- when we evaluate kids, we evaluate kids and the parents. that's the unit, kids and the parent together. and if the kids are behaving in ways that are suggestive that they don't understand right from wrong, they don't understand they're implicating themselves,

they don't understand the impact they're having -- again, the social media gives them some distance from what they're doing and makes it seem like, well, this is all in fun, this is a joke, this is where we do things that are fun when in fact people's lives are permanently, potentially, affected by behavior on the internet. we may find out because we don't know yet, perhaps more so than in the flesh. >> absolutely. and, look, this may be a case where with all the pictures people are not going to be able to say what was going on there because maybe they were so drunk. but let me ask you this, cheryl, cheryl, what about the character of the girl? because you know that defense attorneys are going to go after her and go after her in a big way if she had had so much to drink, if there was alcohol there, that she passed out. talk to me about that because it's really so upsetting to see this young girl in a t-shirt and shorts sort of being dragged by these two young men. what about a potential character assassination of her?

>> that her character is even an issue is absolutely appalling. i want to say, i think it's really important that people like dr. drew are here tonight as men talking about how boys have to look at their behavior as well as girls. the idea that we're looking at her character at all, i know in california there are rape shield laws where you're not allowed to make a rape victim's character an issue. but think about this. regardless of someone's character and from what i understand, she was an athlete and a scholar and an "a" student in a religious school. but even if a victim didn't have impeccable character, should that mean that a man or boy can rape with impunity? when we think about -- why isn't the default -- >> cheryl, i'll go one step further. let's say this is the beginning of alcoholism in this poor young girl. shouldn't she then even be more protected because she has a

condition that put her at risk of behavioral choices that might be a detriment to her? we should be protecting her further as opposed to contemplating a character assassination. there's a substance thing here that maybe put her at risk. maybe it was teen acting out. maybe there's a more serious problem and we should feel empathy for this young girl and not disdain. >> maybe she made a choice that she came to regret. maybe she picked up a drink, had it and wasn't able to control what she did. we don't know what the outcome is going to be, what prosecutors are going to be able to prove. but looking at those pictures, there's something extremely disturbing about the potential violation that took place there that night. dr. drew pinsky and cheryl arutt, thank you so much for the engaging conversation. we appreciate it. a program reminder, be sure to washington dr. drew on call on our sister network, hln at 9:00 p.m. eastern. next on cnn -- when was the

last time you heard a politician talk like this -- >> 66 days and counting. shame on you. shame on congress. >> new jersey's chris christie winning over voters from both parties. is it hard talk or hot air? ord . i think your friends will understand. oh no, it's actually my geico app...see? ...i just uh paid my bill. did you really? from the plane? yeah, i can manage my policy, get roadside assistance, pretty much access geico 24/7. sounds a little too good to be true sir. i'll believe that when pigs fly. ok, did she seriously just say that? geico. just click away with our free mobile app. [ male announcer ] jill and her mouth have lived a great life. but she has some dental issues she's not happy about. so i introduced jill to crest pro-health for life. selected for people over 50. pro-health for life is a toothpaste that defends against tender, inflamed gums, sensitivity and weak enamel.

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you know, disaster relief was something that you didn't play games with. but now in this current atmosphere, everything is the subject of ones-upsmanship, everything is a piece of bait for the political game. it is why the american people hate congress. >> well, when it comes to new jersey governor chris christie,

what you see is what you get. and this week, his fellow republicans got an earful, as you just heard. let's bring in ana navarro. that is your party. is this the kind of elected official that republicans need, someone who calls it like he sees it? >> absolutely. we need a big tent that's got room for people like chris christie, for northeastern republicans that call it like they see it, that are blunt, that are honest. chris christie wasn't saying anything that most americans don't believe is true. yes, look at the statistics and the approval ratings for washington, for congress. they're in the low teens. and that's the high ones, deb. most americans believe washington is broken. most americans believe congress and our government is working in a dysfunctional fashion. he doesn't say anything that most americans don't share in. the best thing chris christie can do for our party is be a good governor of new jersey. let's remember that new jersey

is a state that's got two democrat senators, that's had a democrat governor. it is a blue state that goes democrat in presidential races. chris christie is doing a great job there. his top priority is to represent the people of new jersey. that's what he's got to do best. >> look, party critics from the gop are basically going to say he's burning bridges and he's doing it just so he can get reelected and bashing congress is the easiest way to do it. do you agree? >> no. i don't think he's taking on congress to get reelected. i think he's doing what he has to do. remember, i'm from florida so i come from a state that gets hit by hurricanes. and when you are an affected state, what you want is you want quick action and you want other people to feel the sense of urgency no as an affected victim feel. i don't think that this is about his reelection. i think he's trying to do his job the best way he can. he's doing his job. we also have to cut john boehner

some slack, i think. he had been in a marathon for weeks trying to get this fiscal cliff deal done. he finally made it. he did it at the last minute. he was fried that night. he didn't have the political capital. he didn't have the energy, the emotional wherewithal to go through it all over again over sandy. did he mishandle it? absolutely. i'm sure if you asked john boehner if he mishandled it, he would say he could have handled it better. that being said, it's time to pass the page, let bygones be bygones. it's time to get moving. john boehner made amends. he got the bill passed the next day on friday, we're good. >> ana navarro, thank you so much. and we know you're under the weather. so we really appreciate your being here for all of us and our viewers. thanks so much. death in hollywood has us asking, is it time to make tougher laws for the paparazzi?

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with odor free aspercreme. powerful medicine relieves pain fast, with no odor. so all you notice is relief. aspercreme. this past week, a photographer was killed chasing a car that he thought justin bieber was driving. it happened on an l.a. freeway. police say the man pulled over and walked across the street to snap photos. but as he walked back to his car, he was hit and killed by oncoming traffic. dennis, you led a push a few years back to regulate what paparazzi can and cannot do. after this tragedy, justin bieber said we need better laws to protect celebrities and also paparazzi. do you think this might spark that to happen? >> well, i would hope so. we look back at 1997, princess diana, that tragic death. we started in los angeles back in 2008 trying to come up with some new regulations.

karen bass at the time was the speaker of the california state assembly, authored legislation on a civil matter. the next year, 2010, we went up to something very significant to take aggressive action. it's about enforcement. it's about enforcement by the local law enforcement but clearly there's the responsibility by the celebrities, by the photographers, we need to safeguard people. this tragedy, this 29-year-old who was trying to become an up-and-coming photographer, a paparazzi in the city of los angeles, tragically killed by a lady who simply is driving down the roadway at night, didn't see him, struck him, killed him. she had two youngsters in the car. a lot of people are impacted by this. we need cooperation from everyone. we need cooperation from the celebrities as well as those taking photography and the paparazzi. and what happened is they've exploded in numbers. there used to be just a couple out taking photography. now the numbers are staggering. and when they have the chases down the freeway, in july, it was with justin bieber traveling down the freeway at an excessive rate of speed followed by the

paparazzi. it got out of control. i called 911. we did a prosecution. the court ruled that the laws are too broad. we have to scale them down. the bottom line is it's everyone's responsibility. we're working feverishly with our city attorney and with our state legislators to try and shore this up so we don't have any more of these tragedies. >> let's talk about -- one of the greatest players involved in this are magazines and newspapers that pay these men and women a lot of money for that one photo everybody's trying to get that one photo that will basically really almost make them rich, at least for a little while. what is the responsibility of the magazines and the papers themselves? >> there are sanctions and there are sanction here in the state of california. the problem is, we have got a swarm of paparazzi chasing these individuals, who's going to get that picture? in this particular case, the highway patrol stopped the ferrari on the 405 freeway.

this was adjacent to the freeway where this young 29-year-old photographer got out of his car, went over snapping some pictures. the officer told him to get out of there, told him to remove himself. as we goes back, he's struck and killed. it's a dark roadway. it's really a tragedy. but hopefully we can learn from this experience and we can have the cooperation -- doesn't matter how many laws are on the books. it's the cooperation of everyone, including the cle celebrities. >> and the public. we have to curb our insatiable demand for that hot next picture. sir, thank you very much. we appreciate your joining us tonight. next on cnn -- don lemon with william shatner. ♪ going out of my head can't get that song out of my head. >> you're going out of your mind. >> you've never seen captain kirk like this before. ♪

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william shatner is on tour with a new show. he's been on a lot of shows, of course. 9 don lemon talked to him earlier and asked if over the years the craft of acting has changed for shatner. >> i have discovered as an actor, as i'm into my last phases of life that acting is even more -- >> come on. >> well, it is. acting becomes more complex. >> you've worked with judy

garland, on and on and on. and you're a star in your own right. but back then, you were younger. were you star-struck when you worked with those people? >> so much so. i loved them. they were the mystery and the mystique of the silver screen. as a kid, i'd go and watch these people. and then i met them. spencer tracy, a legendary group of people who are now for the most part long forgotten. and i admired them. they were the ritual i went through. they were the focus of miytholoy that i went through. >> i wonder when people do spoofs of you or sort of mimic you and do the stacatto, that

doesn't bother you, does it? >> no. some of those actors who most people in america don't recognize, jimmy stewart, did they recognize when people were doing imitations. with edward g. robinson, i said, did you know you do this a lot? and he said, i do? i know what they're doing but i don't see myself doing that, do i? >> i think you probably had a lot of gay admirers because you walked around that ship with your shirt off a lot or at least -- >> well, if that was the reason i had gay admirers, they perhaps don't admire me quite as much now. >> all right. so let's move on and talk about lieutenant, nischelle nichols -- >> is that sort of a dream thing with you. is that a fantasy for you?

>> what? >> you want to talk about lieutenant -- >> i had a huge -- i thought you were talking about the you with your shirt off, no. but lieutenant, i did -- i had a crush on her when i was a kid. who didn't? she was a gorgeous woman. >> i heard it in your voice. >> you share what many consider the interracial kiss on american television. did you realize how groundbreaking that moment was? >> not in terms of groundbreaking. i just realized how lovely her lips were. >> this was the 1960s. were you worried at all about your career and that it would have a detrimental effect on your career for sharing a kiss with an african-american woman? >> it never occurred to me, no. and some last words from william shatner next. alli can help you lose one more by blocking some of the fat you eat. let's fight fat with alli. ♪

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and i sea food differently. william shatner is touring with his one-man show but he took a break to talk to our don lemon. and he wanted to end about thoughts he has about all of us. >> we're on that journey together, the journey through to death. and we don't know what's on the other side of that line of death. so we're locked in this